144：呼吸丙酮能告诉您关于脂肪燃烧，新陈代谢的信息& Inflammation

孩子：欢迎来到我的妈妈’s podcast.

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凯蒂：嗨，欢迎来到“健康的妈妈播客。” I’来自wellnessmama.com的m Katie。今天我和乔·安德森在这里。它’因为他在肺部生理学和呼吸研究科学方面拥有20多年的经验，因此将成为一次有趣的对话。他’是安德森生物科学公司（Anderson Bioscience）的所有者，是华盛顿大学生物工程系的附属教员，在那里他获得了化学工程博士学位。他’出版了40余篇同行评审的出版物，因此他’对这门科学并不陌生，他 ’与一家新公司合作，’我曾经参与过名为LEVL的活动。一世’一直在使用他们的设备来了解健康和疾病中的酮症以及呼吸丙酮的测量如何帮助个人更好地管理自己的健康。我认为它’将会是一个非常有启发性的事件。欢迎光临，乔，感谢您在这里。

Joe: Yeah, thank 您 for having me.

凯蒂：所以我认为我的听众非常了解，但是对于那些’t quite familiar, I’d love to start at the beginning. Can 您 kind of just define what ketosis is for us, because I know we’再把那个名词丢掉。

Joe: Yeah, certainly, ketosis is the idea that 您r body’燃烧着脂肪，其中一部分脂肪’d称脂肪代谢，其中一些脂肪’s being converted into these chemicals called ketone bodies. And ketosis is a way to kind of monitor and describe how many of those ketone bodies are in 您r body, in 您r blood, and in 您r brain etc. 以便’那里有很多信息。一世’确保我们需要解压缩一点。

凯蒂：我要说的是我现在知道这是一个非常受欢迎的名词，我有很多资源’我在网上看到有关酮症及其发生方式的弹出窗口’s beneficial. But so like 您 just explained pretty much if 您r body’s burning fat which most people will want to burn fat, at least some of the time, then 您’re technically in ketosis. So can 您 explain kind of what the difference is and the types of ketosis are and the ones that would be more common, versus more extreme, I guess?

Joe: Sure, and maybe to even take a step back if 您 don’t 分 d is, 您 know, there’这是走向理解的运动’那些糖’对我们最好。那实际上，我们废除脂肪也许是错误的主意，也许我们确实应该减少糖分，增加脂肪的摄入。这个想法也许’是实际上引起炎症并导致某些系统性衰竭的糖分’re seeing with some medical conditions. So if 您 take a hold of that perspective and the science seems to be starting to support that idea that the sugars and elevating a lot of the sugars in 您r body really is not the best idea, then 您 wanna be burning more fat. And that’s why we get to this idea of how can 您 tell if 您’re elevating 您r fat metabolism? How can 您 tell if 您’重新开启这种脂肪代谢？那’酮症进入的位置。

So once again, to take a step back. 那里 was a study done about 30 years ago coming out of Abbott Laboratories where they showed that people who wanted to lose body fat just on a natural standard American diet, well-mixed but they restricted the calories, they cut their calories probably in half of what they would typically need. What they saw is those folks who did that and who were losing fat mass, they increased their ketone bodies, in this case, acetone in their exhaled breath.

So the reason I bring that up is even if 您’re just eating 您r normal standard American diet, but 您’re gonna cut back calories, 您 can get into a state of ketosis. In fact, no matter what 您’re doing we’都处于某种酮症状态。意思是我们’都燃烧了一些脂肪和一些脂肪’被转化为这些酮体，所以每个人’处于这种状态，我称之为基础性酮症。

凯蒂：是的’s fascinating. So just changing 您r diet even a little can get 您 into ketosis, even just reducing calories. And I know there’s a lot of data out there about the benefits of caloric restriction over the long term for longevity, and how like fasting can play into that, or different dietary changes. But what other things can come into play here? And when 您’在谈论热量限制。我会’ve猜测热量限制越多，发生的酮症越严重，或者’那边有什么关系？

乔：是的，绝对。然后’重点是我’m kinda hearing 您 say is, 您 know, what is the range of ketosis? And, 您 know, one thing I forgot to say is there are hopefully some people are saying, “Well, why does 您r body bother making these other chemicals? Why would 您 burn fat to make another chemical that seems useless?” Which would be a great question. So what happened and 您 can think years and years ago when we didn’t have meals every single day, 您 had to go out and scavenge or maybe 您 killed an animal and 您 ate, and 您 may have to wait a few days, right?

So what happens in that scenario is 您r body doesn’t have sugar, because 您r body burns that out fairly quickly and 您r brain is really reliant on sugar. So the sugar is gone from the system, then 您 need something to feed 您r brain and the brain can’t metabolize fat. So what happens is 您r body converts the fat into these ketone bodies that feeds the brain. So we’真的是piggy带了我们长期使用的生物学’ve kind of neglected due to our current ways of living, and constant intake of food. That if 您 convert… You move away from sugars and start using more fats, some of those fats are gonna be converted to fuel for 您r brain, right?

And so 您r question was, what is the range of ketone bodies? What’这种酮症或脂肪代谢的范围增加了吗？好吧，我想的方式就是用丙酮呼吸，因为我’我与一家名为LEVL的公司合作’创建了一种测量丙酮呼吸的装置。呼吸丙酮是酮症的指征。它’实际上是那些酮类化学物质之一，酮体。我们所有人的呼吸中约有百万分之一的酮或丙酮，’这就是为什么我称其为基础性酮症。

Now, if 您 can crank up 您r ketosis even mildly, just by cutting back 您r calories like we talked about, maybe instead of 2,000 calories a day, 您 cut out to 1,000. You can increase breath acetone to maybe 10 parts per million, right? Eight to 10 parts per million, so it’s a reasonable increase. Now I think one of the other things 您 mentioned if 您 do something different, let’s say 您 cut back all 您r calories, 您 fast. And like I just stated, 您 know, 500 years ago, 1,000 years ago when people…the food wasn’如此丰富，大概每周都会发生一次。您’d be fasting for a few days looking for 您r next meal. When 您 fast 您 can crank up 您r breath acetone between 10 and 100 parts per million.

这些都是来自科学研究。我们在“Obesity” which is a journal reviewing this science. The other way 您 can get it between 10 and 100 parts per million is by just eating higher levels of fat to really cutting back 您r sugar intake, 您r carbohydrate intake to, 您 know, less than 50 grams maybe 25 grams of sugar a day, and that’确实是一小部分。您’re talking around a teaspoon of sugar when 您 think about it.

Now, so 您 can elevate 您r ketone bodies almost a hundredfold. Still be healthy, still be probably even more alert because those ketone bodies are great fuel for the brain. Some of 您 are probably medical folks and 您 realize, “伙计，我记得听说过丙酮和呼吸，’表示糖尿病性酮症酸中毒。” Well, that’是的，但这确实发生在完全不同的范围内。我们’re talking probably 300 parts per million of acetone to 1,250 parts per million of acetone. So 您’说的话比我们所有人的话高将近一千倍，只是坐在这里吃我们标准的美国饮食。所以这些都是范围。

One is the basal, one to 10 is just some calorie, mild calorie restriction, 10 to 100 parts per million of acetone in the breath, fasting or very low sugar intake. And then, 您 know, above 100 您’再说300到1,250’糖尿病酮症酸中毒。这显然伴随着其他与医学有关的并发症。

凯蒂：那 makes sense. So are there benefits to different levels of ketosis? And obviously, I would guess it’s dangerous at the point when 您’重新达到糖尿病酮症酸中毒水平。但是在此之前，在某些级别上有哪些好处是最佳的选择？

Joe: Yeah, there are certainly benefits to elevating 您r ketone bodies. One of them is a reduction potentially an inflammation. 那里’s some data coming out that seems to indicate that in the mitochondria of the cell. The mitochondria is that power plant of the cell that converts nutrients into energy that 您r cell can use. That in that mitochondria, the inflammation is decreased. You can also think that if 您 get into elevated levels of ketosis, the reason that’s happening is 您’re cutting out the sugar. So 您’可以减轻一些潜在的动脉壁炎症。

You also are going to reduce sugar which is going to reduce the insulin response. Insulin is the chemical in 您r body that tells sugar to go into the cells, without insulin the sugar just keeps circulating in the blood and causes quite a bit of damage, and leads to the diabetes we’re talking about. So reduction of insulin can be very beneficial, and the reason that is, is when 您 are constantly pumping out insulin, 您r cells can desensitize to that insulin, and with time can be a precursor to the type 2 diabetes. 以便 could be another one.

这些酮体升高时，酮症一侧的另一部分将是大脑的燃料。那里’一些不错的研究表明，酮体，酮体是大脑的重要燃料。实际上，很多人说，当他们患上酮症的水平升高时，那大概就是每百万丙酮中有10到100份，而我们也许也想谈一谈血液方面，血液使他们获得更好的警觉，更好的心理功能。然后最后一件事是，这种升高的酮症水平可能具有治疗作用，也许我们’我会谈论这件事，也许有助于扭转某些疾病，也可以预防其他疾病。

凯蒂：它’如此迷人。我至少可以像我一样亲自谈谈大脑的好处’我注意到，而且我知道很多人是故意禁食或进入酮症的，甚至没有像健康这样有益于大脑的益处。而且’s like truly it’s a very clean fuel for 您r brain from what I’我已经读过，我当然会注意到当我’ve实验过酮症。但是我认为我们在研究中指的是’d我想更深入一点，因为我’我有点呆呆，我喜欢翻阅医学杂志，看看最新的研究成果是什么。和我’我见过很多人，并与一些研究人员最近谈论了酮症和潜在癌症研究中的禁食，甚至能够通过酮症和类似的疗法降低化疗水平。所以我’d love to know if 您’ve researched that as well and what 您r opinion is.

Joe: Yeah, certainly. We kind of look at the ketosis, kind of, three different ways, at least from the LEVL viewpoint. We have the way of ketosis is great to monitor 您r fat loss, right? So 您 wanna lose…这就是我们所拥有的。在我们公司，我们有中年人，新陈代谢减慢，我们 ’re gaining a few extra pounds. How can we get those pounds off without going too crazy? Well, the LEVL device helps 您 measure 您r fat metabolism, right? So fat loss is a great one. And the other side of it is to change 您r diet completely or, 您 know, or maybe not overnight but with some time and really start to cut back the sugar, so 您’重新获得酮症或生酮饮食，即那些饮食。

Now, the third one is what 您 talked about is trying to use the elevated ketone bodies for therapeutic uses, right? And what I mean by therapeutic uses is there’s we’ve gone through the literature, and kind of outlined about I think 8 to 10 different places where elevated ketone bodies or lifestyles that lead to elevated ketone bodies can reverse diseases. For example, type-2 diabetes. 那里’一家叫Verdant Therapeutics的好公司’s reversing type 2 diabetes by having people cut out the sugars, going on a ketogenic diet. And what happens, if 您 remember sometimes people call type 2 diabetes sugar diabetes, is 您r body drops its insulin production and it allows 您r cells to resensitize to insulin, and it uses fat for the fuel.

And so instead of 您r body having to manage where sugar is going and the damage that potentially sugar is causing to it, fats filling the body and 您 can reverse quite a few of those symptoms of type 2 diabetes. The other ones are like we talked about some brain function. Different mental, I guess, 您 could call ’精神疾病，无论是’只是轻度痴呆，阿尔茨海默氏症’s, Parkinson’s。这些被认为是大脑中糖利用不良的结果。癌症’另一个。再一次，我们可以对这个明显但癌症的细节’大约100年以来的一个假设被称为Warburg效应，即癌症是由糖代谢驱动的，并且有两件事正在发生。

Number one, the sugar is feeding the cancer but also sugar is elevating insulin in 您r blood, which is the signal for the cancer cells to continue to reproduce and grow faster. So the idea is cut the sugar out. You’re gonna elevate 您r fat metabolism. You’re gonna elevate 您r ketone bodies. The cancer cannot use the ketone bodies because they have a dysfunctional ability to metabolize fats and ketone bodies, and so the surrounding cells, the healthy cells use it but 您 essentially starve those cancer cells. And now 您 may not kill ’em all off, but like 您 said, if 您 were to fast and 您 start to desensitize those cancer cells and 您 start to starve them, then when 您 hit them with the chemotherapeutic, and potentially it could be a lesser dose, potentially, or radiation therapy then 您 may be able to kill more of them more effectively without the side effects.

And some of the thought processes is the ketone bodies feeding those healthy cells, when 您 hit the whole body with the chemotherapeutic or the radiation, those healthy cells are actually more protected due to metabolizing the fat and the ketone bodies prior to the therapeutic dose. So hopefully, that gives 您 some perspective. As 您 may know, some folks may know that they’我们已将这种生酮饮食用于癫痫病患者。还有他们’ve shown, they’我们已经知道有将近100年的历史了，生酮饮食的人，其癫痫发作和事件的数量急剧下降了50％，根据孩子或成人的人群，也许下降了90％，并且确实可以扭转癫痫。

凯蒂：这实际上是我第一次接触到酮症，是一个患癫痫病的儿时朋友，而我的朋友根本无法摄取任何碳水化合物，而且饮食中含有大量酮源。我没有’当时我并没有考虑太多，但是当我开始看到这项研究时，它又回到了我的身旁，“Oh, wow.”他们真的很早就知道了。它’不像我们这样的新时尚’re just figuring out. Is there a point where like, can 您 get too much of a good thing, I guess? Like is there a point when 您 need to add back in carbs? I know there’s a lot of people who recommend cycling or occasionally spiking carbohydrates. Have 您 seen any research on that one way or the other?

乔：再来一次，只是为了…想退后一步。我认为某些研究仍未必是新颖的，但我们 ’重新开始开发其中一些领域。所以我们知道生酮饮食可以很好，对吗？问题是，这对每个人都有好处吗？我认为’s some studies coming out looking at different diets and genetics, so depending on 您r genetic profile one style of diet may be more preferential for 您 than others. So to get to 您r point is do 您 stay on it forever or do 您 cycle in and out? I think it’s gonna depend on the individual, and I think there will have to be a little bit of experimentation per individual to see, 您 know, maybe 您 stay on it for a week, or maybe do some intermittent fasting and 您 cut back 您r sugar, or maybe 您 can go in and out. I think it’取决于某些生活方式的选择，某些遗传因素。

有些人可以’这样做是因为他们的工作方式，以及他们’重新飞遍整个地方。所以我知道’s not the answer maybe 您 want, but I do think that it’将根据个人情况量身定制。

Katie: No, that makes sense. And 您 mentioned going in and out of ketosis. I’m curious does it take a while especially if 您’re not really used to being in ketosis for 您r body to kind of get into that groove? Because it seems like a lot of people if they just cut the carbs to cold-turkey, they tend to experience some uncomfortable symptoms for a few days, and then they’ll see the ketones. Have 您 seen that?

Joe: Yeah, a lot of people term that the keto flu, so 您 cut back the sugars. And remember when 您’re cutting back the sugars, one of the things 您’re gonna see, and a lot of people see this when they first go on a diet, is 您 start to urinate, 您 start to get rid of a lot of the water. Sugar needs water for storage, right? Fat doesn’t. Fat, 您 know, oils don’t like water. So one of the things that happens when 您 start to urinate out, 您 may urinate out some of the calcium, and sodium, and potassium. And so 您 may get some of this flu-like symptoms. And a lot of people can manage that just by drinking some bone broth that has some of those chemicals in it to relieve it.

所以，我当然想’ve heard and I’ve experienced some, is the first time 您 go into ketosis or the first time 您 fast is the toughest, but there’我的一些记忆’m not sure how that is. But each time 您 do it again, for example, each time 您 fast again, it gets a little bit easier. So I would say the more 您 do it the easier it’s gonna become.

凯蒂：那 makes sense. I’我很好奇运动是如何影响这种酮症和脂肪流失，脂肪代谢甚至呼吸丙酮的方程式。运动在那里有作用吗？

Joe: Yeah, it certainly does. 那里’s a couple different things when 您’在谈论酮水平。顺便说一句，也许我想也许应该退后一步，因为我没有’不要事先说这个。什么时候我们’关于酮症，我们’re really talking about three ketone bodies. So when 您r fat leaves the fat cell, gets into the circulation, and finally hits the liver, that’在这种情况下，脂肪被转化为称为酮体的这些化学物质。母酮体是乙酰乙酸酯，我为这些大牌表示歉意，但是’仅仅是我们所说的。

乙酰乙酸酯可以相互转化，这意味着在称为β-羟基丁酸酯的化学物质之间来回转换。这两种化学品，乙酰乙酸酯，β-羟基丁酸酯，’仅在血液或尿液中发现’s just because they’re too big. They can’蒸发或我们所谓的挥发。乙酰乙酸酯也能以一种方式转化为丙酮，因此一旦转化为乙酸酯就不会’t convert back to acetoacetate. And acetone is small so that when acetone in the blood supply passes through the lungs, it can come out in the air and then out into 您r exhaled breath so we can measure it there.

So what can affect the levels of those ketone bodies? We talked about nutrition, right? A couple of the other ones that are factors would be exercise, right? So if 您 exercise for a long period of time at a moderate rate, 您 can increase 您r fat metabolism. You start burning more fat. That will show up in exhaled breath acetone as well as measurements of these ketone bodies in 您r blood and 您r urine. Two other ones that we typically think are pretty important are sleep and stress. So if 您’re not sleeping well, 您 can change 您r body’的新陈代谢。一项研究表明，这是一项有趣的研究，我几乎认为’s about 10 years ago showing that the ketone levels rise throughout sleep. Particularly 您r breath acetone rises throughout sleep, and it rises more in people who have deeper sleep.

And it was a small study and a small data set, but that was interesting to me. Then the other one is the stress piece, and that can really affect the levels of ketone bodies, because it really can mess up 您r metabolism. The other thing that’s interesting is that what we typically see in the scientific literature, is that women have higher ketone levels than men for a given fasting period etc. And that seems to be indicative of different hormonal distributions between the men and the women. And so when 您 say that then that kind of leads into the fact of that women will have different levels of ketone bodies based off their hormonal cycles, or other hormonal things that are going on.

凯蒂：那’确实很有趣，但是完全有道理。所以我’我很好奇，因为我知道’s several ways 您 can measure if 您r body’s in ketosis. And I’ve seen like, for instance, like blood meters that would be different than like the LEVL device. Can 您 talk about the differences in those measurements and like do they tend to match up? Are they all accurate? Or what are the differences?

乔：是的’s a great question. So like I said three different ketone bodies. 那里’乙酰乙酸，β-羟基丁酸酯，然后是丙酮。真正为消费者量身定做的每一种油液都使用不同的油液。让’首先从我认为最糟糕的一种开始，我想大多数科学家可能毫无疑问会同意我的看法，那就是测量尿液中的酮，尽管它可以’我会说，这是最便宜的方法，实际上是最不准确和有问题的方法。

现在它’s very inexpensive but the problem is when 您 urinate and 您’re measuring acetoacetate, 您 have a lot of factors that affect that concentration in the urine, and that can be the time between 您r last void, the last time 您 urinated. It can be acetoacetate converts into acetone in 您r urinary bladder. And so there’s quite a few factors that can affect that concentration. 以便’尽管它确实不是衡量它的最佳方法’s inexpensive it’s also not quantitative if 您’ve ever done that. It gives 您 a color that 您’然后必须将其转换为某种数值。

The gold standard really would be blood measurement of beta-hydroxybutyrate, and what that is, is 您 prick 您r finger and 您 give a drop of blood on to a strip, and then 您 make a measurement of beta-hydroxybutyrate using the device, and that gives 您 a quantitative result. And that, like I said, is probably the gold standard at the moment. But there are a couple things as 您 can imagine, most people I think initially say, “It’只是我的手指上的刺。喝些血，我们继续前进。”但是随着时间的流逝，它开始变得很痛苦，并且实际上开始引起瘀伤。所以，我从经验中这样说’s not as much fun as 您 would imagine.

另一件事实际上是条形相当昂贵。现在他们’ve been fluctuating in price, but they can be 3 to 4 bucks a strip. So if 您 mess up the measurement 您 get to pay another 3 bucks, so it can potentially be, 您 know, 7 bucks a measurement if 您 mess it up. So those can be pretty expensive, and 您’不做很多事情，对不对？仅仅是因为成本和一点不便。另一个是呼气中的丙酮，’是LEVL设备提供的一种。我们之所以’re so excited and bullish about it is because 您 can make measurements as many times as 您 want throughout the day, and 您 can do it in a somewhat of a public setting because it’s not… It doesn’t feel private, 您’re not pricking 您rself, 您 don’t have to clean up 您r finger afterwards.

那里’s, 您 know, pretty 分 imal overhead for it in that sense. So acetone also, the benefit is there’s some nice relationship between acetone, and at least fat metabolism, fat loss. How they each compare one to another. 那里 have been some studies, there seems to be some comparison between acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate depending on some of the factors we just talked about. Are 您 exercising? Are 您 hydrated well? 那里’他们之间的关系，’s not 100% clear what it is. I mean, we kinda have a range, 您 know, it could be one to one, it could be one to four depending on that. Acetone versus beta-hydroxybutyrate, like I said, kind of that gold standard has a relationship as well. But it seems like there may be a little bit of a delay between, kind of, an elevation in beta-hydroxybutyrate versus an elevation in breath acetone. So there 您 go.

凯蒂：那’真的非常着迷。所以我’我自己一直在尝试LEVL，而我’d喜欢喜欢在使用它的最佳方法上获得清晰的说明。因此，基本上，有人可以在家中使用它来衡量’re losing fat or not? And like what would 您 be looking for if 您 were using a device to do that?

Joe: Yeah, if 您’re using the LEVL device to, 您 know, just cut some calories and try to lose some fat mass by reducing the amount of calories intakes. 那里’s a nice relationship between breath acetone and fat loss, and we have that on the app there. So a couple things we recommend. Number one, measure it in the morning, right? When 您 get up and doing that every day. And the reason is it gives 您 a time that’s repeatable, that’s also not really influenced by outside factors because 您’ve slept overnight, 您 haven’t put any food in 您r mouth, 您 haven’t exercised. And so 您’ve gotten up and 您r body is coming out of this restful, peaceful state, and so it’是进行测量以使其受到良好控制的好时机。

测量时要说的一件事是，我们实际上建议采用呼吸模式，以获取最可重复和最准确的测量值。而且’s fairly simple and we created it to try to make it fairly comfortable. So a deeper breath in. You hold 您r breath for about five seconds, and then just a full comfortable exhalation through the little breath pod before 您 do the measurement. 以便 would be the thing I would say. Now like I said before, 您 can certainly take measurements throughout the day, and sometimes I think that’s very beneficial to understand when 您 go and exercise, how did that affect 您r acetone levels, or maybe 您 ate some things, or maybe 您’re stressed. So those sorts of things can help 您 calibrate what’s going on within 您r body, with 您r fat metabolism.

凯蒂：是的，我’我一直喜欢像尝试各种食物之后使用它，看看哪种似乎更能影响我的血液丙酮水平和酮症。而且’看到地瓜之类的东西很有趣’如果我适度地吃它们，对我来说真的有很大的不同。就像有些水果真的一样。所以’进行这样的实验真是太好了。
This podcast is brought to 您 by Dry Farm Wines. This is the only wine I drink anymore. After researching and finding that many other wines contain added sugar, dyes like ultra vita-mega purple and filtering agents including fish waters, egg whites and some other unsavory ingredients. And things like sawdust to improve the taste. But the Dry Farm part is important too. What this means is that the grapes are not irrigated. Without the water, they don’变大或变甜，自然会产生较高的营养成分和较低的酒精度。他们的葡萄酒经过实验室测试以确保纯度，并确保它们不含微量的农药和除草剂。它们都来自世界各地的小型家庭干燥农场葡萄园。我绝对喜欢他们的葡萄酒，并且发现它们比其他优质葡萄酒便宜。而且，收听Wellness Mama的听众可以在wellnessmama.com/go/wine上多花一分钱买一瓶葡萄酒。
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Katie: How are 您 finding people are using these? Is that kind of the way that people are using these the most, is just on a daily basis to kind of gauge their response? And are 您 guys able to track the data to see like the results people are having?

乔：是的，事实上我应该提出两个大问题。所以我们要做的一件事’re excited about is that 您 have an app connected to the hardware device. The device is about the size of a Kleenex box. It’s probably a little smaller than a Kleenex box. And when 您 make the measurement by the device, the device sends the data to 您r app and so 您 can track and trend all 您r measurements throughout the day, throughout weeks, days, weeks etc. And so I think that’进行这种设置的最大好处之一是，我们看到整个星期的人通常都很好。你知道，他们’他们决定，“好的，这是我的生活方式’ve chosen, and I’我会在一周内努力工作。”

And then the weekend comes and, 您 know, the schedule goes a little bit sideways and they have some fun, they have some friends over and 您 can see their acetone levels drop. And that’s just because they’re having some fun. You may have a few drinks on the weekend, or 您 may have a celebration of a birthday with a family member and have a piece of cake. 所有 those things can make it drop off and then the week starts. And 您 can see it start to elevate, 您r breath acetone elevate again and get back into that elevated state of ketosis. I think a lot of people are using it to really monitor, just as 您 did what diet and exercise factors are causing changes in their fat metabolism.

那里’就像我所说的，用于治疗用途的另一组人，也许是我’在试图扭转疾病状况，是否’糖尿病，癌症或痴呆症，并确保我的酮体水平升高到可以治疗的水平’会给我一些好处。

凯蒂：明白了。这就说得通了。当然，我应该在一开始就提到’re gonna have links in the show notes at wellnessmama.fm. So anybody listening, 您 guys can find out more and get to LEVL and check it out. So if someone is new to ketosis in general, and especially new to like testing like this, how would 您 recommend they get started with the least amount of like keto flu, or the least amount of negative effects? Is there kind of a good way to ease into it?

乔：所以我要说的是，有很多不同的人在某种意义上是很专业的。和我’ll kind of quote some of them. I mean, a couple different ways 您 can do it, is that 您 could buy one of those exogenous ketones and eat some of that. You know, people may not be familiar with those but they are called ketone esters or ketone salts. You can eat some of that as a replacement for some of 您r food, maybe replace it for sugar which helps 您r body. What it does is it’s going to elevate the ketone bodies in 您r bloodstream exogenously and externally from 您r external ingestion, and then that helps 您 kind of move into ketosis a little faster.

Another way to do it is to is to eat medium-chain triglyceride. So once again, substitute some of 您r food and take in this kind of fat that’s a specific kind of fat called MCT, medium-chain triglycerides. And what those do is they almost immediately get converted into ketone bodies, so 您 can elevate 您r ketone bodies and go that direction.

I would say probably one thing 您 don’只是想说，“Today I’我在混合美国饮食中和我’我要开始禁食。” That’s probably gonna be the most challenging way to do it. And if 您’re up for a challenge and 您 have some time in 您r hands, then go for it but that’s really a tough, tough way to do it. I think an easier way is probably the way I would do it, to be honest with 您, it would be to start to gradually cut back the sugars, add in like a medium-chain triglyceride to try to ease that conversion, and then also potentially have some bone broth. Have something to try to 分 imize the flu that’由于排出的液体会导致钙，钾和那些化学物质的流失。

凯蒂：是的，我 definitely would echo that. And I think that I love that 您 said about, 您 know, reducing sugar because I think whether fat loss is a goal or not, that’是一件好事。我知道那里’那里有很多研究，我们’重新看到越来越多，但所有这些疾病增加，当然，’t need processed sugar at least. So I love that 您 said that, I do. I always like to highlight that whenever someone says it because I think we’re certainly eating much more sugar than our bodies need. And 您’我可能也已经对此进行了一些研究。

乔：是的，我想跳到这里，对不起。但是我发现遇到的一件有趣的事是世界卫生组织基本上说他们改变了他们的建议， ’告诉人们只吃25克他们所说的游离糖。我认为’s interesting because when 您 think about it, there’s all sorts of different sugars, right? 那里’s sugars in 您r fruits and 您r vegetables. 那里’这些只是天然糖。我的意思是’蜂蜜中的糖吧？但是那边’s this other class of sugars that the World 健康 组织 has deemed free sugar. So imagine 您 take white granulated sugar and 您 mix it into cookies. They would call that free sugar and that sugar is gonna be more readily absorbed and then it’s gonna spike 您r blood glucose, is the idea.

所以我’m trying to get at here, is potentially if 您 wanted to go on that path to try to get sugars out, try to take out those sugars that are maybe the free sugars that are in, 您 know, 您r desserts and in those snacks, and even maybe not just get rid of them, but maybe just at first to substitute ’em with a natural sugar, like 您’d find in a banana or an apple. And then 您 can move from that and then maybe take the banana and apple and maybe substitute nuts for that, right? So it’s just kind of a slow easy process as opposed to trying to transform 您r lifestyle and say, “I’我将永远放弃饼干。”这可能具有挑战性。

凯蒂：是的’很好。我知道’为我工作，因为我’就像我说过的，我一直在使用LEVL来评估我的食物对事物的反应，’令人着迷。因此，对我而言，最有效的方法是每周间歇几天禁食，或者只是延长晚餐和早餐之间的时间。然后偶尔我’ll do like a little bit longer of a fast, but I find the more I do that and the more I keep any kind of sugars low and carbs low, the faster I get back into ketosis on the days that I do eat carbohydrates. It seems like 您 said, the body with the memory, kind of, once 您 learn how to do it 您r body gets there a lot faster and without any of the negative effects, kind of, once 您 adapt to it. Is that what 您’ve seen as well?

乔：是的。我喜欢间歇性禁食的想法。我自己做了一点，您只是在晚餐时吃一顿饭，然后就像您说的那样，’直到中午再吃一次，这将使您禁食16个小时。然后’很简单。事实上，有些人，我想这是蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）所说的，我喜欢的是，如果您到了要吃的地步，也许您吃的是中链甘油三酸酯，那简直就是关键…它将被转化为酮体。现在，从技术上讲，它可以使您摆脱困境，但事实并非如此’当您考虑其他食物时，完全不会’re gonna be…you’re probably gonna be eating some proteins and some sugars, and proteins can be converted into sugar. So 您’re kind of hybridizing 您r fast into this ketogenic state. So, yeah, the intermittent fasting is great. And I do agree that it seems to get a little bit easier day in and day out, and 您 can do a 24-hour fast really easy, right?

You go to lunch and then 您 just wait a little bit longer, and maybe have an early dinner and 您’我已经快24小时了。所以’s a nice way to go about it. And, 您 know, the idea of the fasting too, is I think it gets overlooked, is when 您 think about it. Think about 您r heart, 您r heart is beating every second of the day. 那里’s no rest for 您r heart, and in a sense, we don’t give our GI tract or gastrointestinal tract any time to rest either. We constantly are pumping foods through that tract all the time. So if 您 can give 您r organ systems just a break. If it’s 24 hours, I mean, if 您 can do it for 7 days at some point in 您r life, and I haven’t so I would be the last one to talk about that, 您 can really give it a break to allow it to repair and to replenish itself, and get ready for the next, 您 know, long stretch of processing food.

凯蒂：是的，实际上，我会讽刺的是，我’米，现在正处于禁水7天的中间。但我想肯定地说’米在医生的监督下。我为此做了努力。这绝对不是跳进去的东西。我没有’不想喜欢推荐它并让人们尝试这样做。但是，当我的酮越来越高时，真是令人着迷，而且在头几天之后，所有酮的精神清晰度绝对令人难以置信。所以我认为’s some tremendous benefits, and I know like 您 said, there’对它的研究。还有’这是非常历史性的事情。我们’在整个历史中禁食，但这些天我们似乎更加害怕它。所以我’ll report back on the podcast at a later one with my results of all that. But, yeah, I love that 您’重新看到了这项研究。

Joe: And I wanna jump in here, and I want to second what 您 just said with the doctor supervision. I think that’非常重要，特别是如果’s something, 您 know, where this is, 您 know, we’re getting into a new year and people like to make resolutions and go and do things. You know, when it comes to 您r health, it’比后悔更安全是一个好主意，对吗？去获得额外的评价，然后说，“Yeah, 您 are medically fit to try something that’s a little bit different, a little bit outside 您r comfort zone.”是的，这是非常明智的主意，尤其是在这么长的时间里得到医疗监督。

凯蒂：是的，肯定是100％。当我们接近终点时，我’d love for 您 just to kind of share what 您 guys hope to accomplish with LEVL. I’ve talked to some of 您r employees before, and there’s really like some really cool research and ways that 您 guys are kind of hoping to change the conversation on fat loss and fitness. So I love to just kind of end on that note of what 您 guys hope to accomplish by giving people the tools to measure this on a daily basis?

Joe: Well, 您 know, the goal of the company really is to change the whole idea of health and wellness and disease management, to understanding right now what’s going on inside 您r body. And to do that we need to make measurements, individual measurements of our metabolism and that’丙酮的测量值是多少。它’s a measurement of how 您r body is metabolizing fats, and so if 您 can provide that information real-time to people, they can make real-time changes. Now, the reason I keep saying real-time, is that with our current technology, we use a scale. And the scale is really a reflective of where we’ve been. So 您 get on the scale today and the scale, the measurement will change up and down throughout the week, and really it takes a couple weeks for that scale to move one way or another.

And so 您’ve got two weeks of time over which if 您’ve messed up for whatever reason, 您 can’t get that time back. So everyday measurement allows 您 to make real-time changes, and really understand where 您’再去。其中一件事’s fantastic about that study I talked about with Abbott, is what they demonstrated is if 您 can maintain a two-part per million of acetone in 您r breath. So two molecules of acetone in a million, that would be an elevation over what most people have of one. You can lose a half pound of fat mass per week. So the LEVL device is predictive of fat loss. So if 您 can just maintain it, it’s gonna tell 您. It’s kinda a gold star, the North Star where to go, how to get there, directing 您 on 您r path.

以便’一种方法。换一种方式，我们也觉得’它将成为帮助人们控制疾病的绝佳设备。是否’的癌症疗法，是否’逆转2型糖尿病’s brain function. Trying to elevate 您r ketone bodies to improve 您r brain function, or reducing inflammation, fat loss, epilepsy. 所有 those things with that immediate feedback to understand how 您’re doing day in and day out, and how 您r ketone bodies are responding, how 您r fat metabolism is responding. And it may not just be due to nutrition, it may due to external factors that are affecting 您r sleep, 您r stress, all these things. If 您 can integrate that. Get a single measurement to say, “Yeah, 您 know, yesterday I messed up but it today is a new day. I’我会追赶它并使事情发生。” As opposed to, “I’我走了两个星期，现在我’浪费了那两个星期，现在我’我必须重新开始。”我们真的觉得这将是变革性的。

Katie: Yeah, and its super fascinating and really awesome I think just to be able to have tool in 您r house, and to be able to get real-time data. Because for so long this has not been something that we as just consumers and patients could do, was get access to any really like quantitative health data in our own home. So I love that 您 guys are pioneering that. And like I said I’ve had fun experimenting with it. And, of course, the links will be in the show notes and they can find 您 guys at levl.com. But, yeah, any parting words 您 wanna leave with everybody as encouragement or about LEVL?

Joe: Yeah, 您 know, 您 hit on the point that I should have brought up, since I am the scientist, the clinical scientist here. Is what we’用LEVL做的是’我们将一件称为质谱仪的实验室设备拿到了50至100,000美元的设备中，’ve put it into a device that 您 can have at home, that gives 您 the same accuracy as 您 would have in the laboratory, without all the headaches, the babysitting and the cost of training to understand it. So exactly, this has not been out there and the reason it hasn’之所以出现在市场上，是因为该技术很难折磨，并使其进入消费设备，但是那’是什么使它真正令人兴奋。我们真的希望它可以带来变革。我们’我们听到了一些人的奇妙故事，这些人因使用该设备而改变了他们的生活。

Katie: Awesome. And, of course, the links will be in the show notes. But Joe, thank 您 so much for 您r time. This has been super fascinating and I think it’s gonna help a lot of people, and I really appreciate 您 being here.

乔：是的，绝对。谢谢你让我参加。

Katie: And thanks to all of 您 for listening, and I will see 您 next time on “The 健康的妈妈播客。”

If 您’re enjoying these interviews, would 您 please take two 分 utes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate 您r time, and thanks as always for listening.